Note: the following transcript is a radio script and contains audio cues and other quirks (including imperfect grammar) of the medium. It may contain typos.
Hannah: What were your symptoms?
Taylor: Fatigue, really bad headache, terrible neck pain and back pain and spiked a high fever like got off to one oh three. And a weird mark on my butt on the second or third day.
Hannah: What did it look like?
Taylor: It looked like a bullseye, but to me at the time it just didn't I don't I just didn't make the connection.
[Music]
Hannah: how long did you have those?
Taylor: Three days and you are seen by the doctor and she says what she thought it was the flu. And then almost as a as an aside, I showed her this weird rash. She was like, oh, oh, you have Lyme disease.
Hannah: Just like that.
Taylor: Yeah.
My name is Taylor Quimby. Hi.
I have a confession. Two summers ago, just weeks after my colleague Hannah was diagnosed with Lyme Disease… I got it too.
She got caught in the middle of something strange - a feud between two doctors, working at the same clinic - one who said she had lyme disease, and another who said she probably didn’t. And she wound up getting two rounds of antibiotics before feeling mostly better. It was different for me. My doctor saw the rash, gave me antibiotics, and that was that.
Hannah: And that was the end of your dealings with Lyme?
Taylor: I think so.
Taylor: You know, if you're reading a lot about Lyme disease, you do get a little paranoid that the little things that come up. Could be somehow associated with having been sick.
Hannah: Like what?
Taylor: Like seasonal depression in the winter, anxiety may be over making this podcast.
Hannah: Either way, that anxiety is caused by Lyme.
Taylor: That is true. Lyme disease has given me anxiety. I’m laughing but it’s not funny.
Hannah: It’s not funny.
[static]
Clip from Lyme Book Discussion: So personally, I have mine that is sticking out pretty far to be treating line in what is politically best for me to make not make comments about that sort of thing.
[static]
Clip from State House debate: The lack of understanding and agreement on the causes of the effectiveness of alternative prevailing tests for…
[static]
in what is politically best for me to make not make comments about that sort of thing.
[static]
Governor Sununu: There are families that get devastated., completely debilitating to some form lifelong illness.
[static]
[music]
My Lyme story, has been relatively uncomplicated. But you don’t have to witness fear or confusion in the exam room, to absorb from in your community.
If things had gone differently… if I hadn’t recovered so easily, or had let my paranoia get the better of me… who knows where might I have ended up?
Clip from Wilmot support group: I found that even though I had five kids and grandchildren that I felt more alone that I’d probably felt in my entire life, and I would find that my children were correcting me on certain things, and it’s like no - it’s this thing that’s going on inside me. So we have to learn to grow through it. I want to say welcome and let’s begin the journey together. Sue would you like to go? Nadia, would you like to go?
Taylor: All of the confusion and conspiracy… The anger and anxiety around Lyme Disease - it can drive people away from established medicine…towards treatments and therapies that aren’t well studied.
The sorts of solutions that can be dangerous, or costly. Or maybe, just ineffective.
Doug Wine: Lasers, lasers are by far the most incredible health tool. They've been invented in the last... probably forever.
On this episode, we're going to talk about what happens when people are driven to go off-label to experiment with treatments that may or may not have much science behind them. And we're going to explore the sometimes fuzzy line between experimental medicine and straight up snake oil.
Old Timey TV Clip: I have here testimonials from people who have been cured, I said cured! [fades down]
This is where we show you what’s behind the curtain.
This is where we meet Lymeworld’s wizard of oz.
This is patient zero
<<<<<<>>>>>>
Anonymous Support Group Attendee - this young doctor who came in… he said to me, you don’t belong here. She was not very nice. You don’t belong here... [fades down]
This February, I visited a charming little library in the tiny town of Wilmott, New Hampshire. Four women were gathered in the back, sitting in a small circle of chairs, right next to the DVDs and a couple of scrabble-themed pillows.
Anonymous Support Group Attendee - She said to me we don’t know what it is. What do you want from us? I said, Well, I want you to find out what it is.
All across the country there are Lyme support groups like this one, and they’re different from other support groups in one very important way: most are run independently — separate from doctors and non-profits — and there aren’t any doctors present.
Anonymous Support Group Attendee - Well, maybe I know it's a place severe deal versus a real cases annually. So I said, well, if they don't help us, help me, then I have to help myself.
These places where the anger is potent. Where the frustration with healthcare is palpable. And they’re places where you can hear first hand accounts of how doctors lose their credibility with patients.
Anonymous Support Group Attendee - Next day I went on internet, and I’m 100% sure it is Lyme Disease
Because some of them are self-diagnosed, or diagnosed by alternative practitioners, the medical issues being discussed here are kind of all over the map. But one thing is pretty clear: they are sick…
Anonymous Support Group Attendee 24 - My symptoms are primarily neurological, I’ve been dizzy 24/7 for over four years…
When it feels like doctors have closed the door to proper healthcare, because they’re unable or unwilling to help, or even listen to their patients, another set of doors open. These doors lead to dubious providers, so-called miracle cures, and untested treatments.
And while they're here to share stories and support each other, they’re also here to swap treatment strategies.
Anonymous Support Group Attendee 25 - I spent 23 months on antibiotics, 5 of which were done through a port… IV. But all very aggressive. I was taking 5 oral antibiotics for 18 months, and as you say, the bags for 5 months… [fades down]
So I expected to hear about long term antibiotic use, a controversy that we’ll get into on the next episode. But what I didn't expect to hear about was lasers.
Mary Welch - Somebody had found this place called Lyme Laser Center of New England. And I tell ya, I came back alive and I… [fades down]
This is aspiring life coach Mary Welch. She organized this meeting, and was really keen on encouraging other women here to go see the person who she says saved her life: Dr. Doug Wine. A chiropractor.
Mary Welch - And these people literally saved my life. And it's been over two years now that I've had treatment. And I just feel 100 percent better by this time.
I'd heard about a number of Lyme therapies that are discouraged or downright condemned by the CDC.
Colloidal silver is one - it’s a supplement, literally particles of silver metal suspended in liquid, and while there are no studies to show it does anything helpful for Lyme disease, or anything else, it can cause kidney damage and screw up your liver. .
In fact, if you take enough, it can turn your skin blue. I promise, google the word argyria, and you will not be disappointed.
[Music]
Another big no-no is Malaria Therapy, where people intentionally contract malaria as a way to fight symptoms of Lyme. This is frowned upon for pretty obvious reasons.
On the other hand, there are things like transcranial magnetic stimulation - I won’t go into the details but it is FDA approved for the treatment of depression. And depression is a common effect for anyone who gets misdiagnosed and has to live with a disease for an extended period.
So where does this treatment - laser therapy - land on the spectrum of verboten therapies? Is it in the dangerous and ineffective camp - or the, try it if you want but don’t make any promises camp?
I decided to find out for myself.
[mux swell]
When I checked out the website for Lyme Laser Centers of New England, a few things caught my eye right off the bat.
First of all, there are claims on the front page of the website that are not remotely backed up by science. Namely, that Lyme Disease is not just transmitted by ticks, but can also be passed on by mosquitoes, pets, and even from person to person contact.
Second, an FAQ on the website specifically tells readers that they should “quote” not trust doctors… and quote not take antibiotics.
Third, the Lyme Laser centers offer their own free testing… a 600 plus question survey they call the Co-factor assessment. No blood test required.
And the last thing I noticed, before I scheduled an appointment to take the cofactor assessment… were a bunch of typos.
Just sayin.
[mux]
Taylor Quimby - Hello. How ya doin? You must be Dr. Wine.
Doug Wine - I am. How are you? Nice to meet you.
Taylor Quimby - Taylor. Me, too.
Doug Wine - Yeah. I figured out.
Taylor Quimby - Do you want me to take my shoes off?
Doug Wine - You're all set.
Taylor Quimby - Okay.
Doug Wine - You're not going on any of this stuff. Come on in. This is the New Hampshire Public Radio. Do you have anybody in your assessment room?
Amber - Yeah, Lillian’s watching. She has, yeah. She just started.
Doug Wine - We're gonna get Taylor to do the assessment first. And then I'll do the interview with him after that. I forgot to tell you, sorry. Can you take that for me? There you go.
At the Lyme Laser center in North Andover Massachusetts, patients go through a treatment protocol involving several different therapies.
Taylor Quimby - What's going on over here?
Amber - This is the oscillator. And she's also hooked up to oxygen
The receptionist, Amber, started my tour by showing me a patient who was standing on a giant vibrating machine it looked like something you’d see at the gym… sort of like an eliptical, only the feet don’t actually move. There was a discrete plastic tube clipped to her nostrils.
Amber - So this is where you typically will start your appointment. You're doing 10 minutes on the oscillator. That's really stimulating your body. And it's giving you enough exercise and stimulation that your body thinks it's 50 minutes of walking. It's good.
[clips]
Next was what Amber called, The Brain Tap room… Something that resembled a high-tech meditation center.
Amber - Basically, these noise cancelling headphones have different brainwaves and it'll be either Alpha Theta or Delta depending on which program you're on.
Taylor - Sure. And and just to describe it. The room is a little bit dark. some comfy chairs and tables with headphones on like an iPad.
Amber - Yes, it is. It's a Kindle.
Taylor Quimby - And is that just a set? Set that the waves?
Amber - Yes.
And then finally - the laser room. Which was pretty bare all things considered.
[clips]
Inside. a man wearing dark sunglasses was sitting in a chair, casually running what looked like a next generation Star Trek phaser over his clothes.
Amber - and it’s just those little hand-held lasers, they’re cold lasers.
Taylor Quimby - Lasers. But it's like the size of my shaver.
Amber - Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they’re really small. And you’re holding it on different parts of your body, so it changes between frequencies depending on what organ you’re on, or what gland… what muscle… what bone.
[mux]
This kind of therapy has a more specific name… Low Level Light Therapy. Sometimes, they’re referred to as cold lasers, because when pointed at your skin, they don’t really feel like anything at all. Their frequencies are on the very low end of the spectrum. They’re pretty popular with chiropractors apparently - Here’s a clip from an episode of Dr. Oz on “pill-free” pain relief.
[Dr. Oz Clip]
Steve - Yeah, the light is going to penetrate through the skin. It's going to get absorbed by the areas that need the laser light. And the laser lights can help tissue healing, improving the blood flow to the area
Dr. Oz - Do you feel that at all?
Kelly - Nothing.
Dr. Oz - What kinds of neck pain has it worked for?
Steve - All neck of pains, Dr. Oz. [fades down]
Low-level light devices are approved by the FDA for the treatment of aches and pains - basically, it’s a sports medicine thing. And you can actually buy them yourself off Amazon for a couple hundred bucks or less.
Studies do show that they have some mild effects in reducing inflammation, increasing blood flow, and speeding up the healing process for minor injuries. But how would they cure lyme disease?
That question had to wait. First, I had to take the test: The Lyme Laser Cofactor Assessment.
Amber - Don’t leave anything blank. If it doesn't apply to you, just you can hit an X or a period or no, none, anything.
The testing room had two computers on opposite ends, and those funny ergonomic chairs that make you look like you’re kneeling.
Taylor [talking to himself] - Just a ton of multiple choice. Have you ever been professionally diagnosed with Lyme? Yes. Professionally diagnosed with Candida? No. You've been treated for Candida? No. I had brain fog. Sure. Dizziness? Not really.
The cofactor assessment is an epidemiologist’s worst nightmare. It's filled with questions about subjective symptoms, asking whether or not you've experienced them in the past year or previous years. Many of these questions are asked five or six times.
Taylor [talking to himself] - Anxiety? Yes. Nervousness? Sure. Do you see as easily? [voices begin to overlap and blend together] No previous appendicitis? Never. Poor simulation? No arthritis? No. No previous years. Can I just say no? Low back, no eating into Christmas across the the. Ceremony, kids and frosty streets, some of the other questions.
Again, I couldn’t help but notice a couple typos...
Taylor [talking to himself] - Do you have stomach… hmmm…
And some questions… well, honestly I just cannot imagine why they have anything to do with anything.
Taylor [talking to himself] - You hesitate to exercise regularly and occasionally. Are you more tired after exercise? Sometimes. Do you need coffee to wake up? Yes. How often are pesticides used in your home? Never. How often are exposed to nail polish perfume, hairspray?
Do you tend to overeat? Do I chew gum? Sure. Do you cook or reheat foods, plastic containers in the microwave? No.
I think it’s safe to say that a lot of these questions have little or nothing to do with diagnosing lyme disease. Chewing gum does not, to my knowledge, increase your chances of a tick bite.
But in the era of the 15 minute doctor’s appointment, where people can be ushered in and out of an exam room with minimal empathy and understanding, this test may be the first time someone - or something - shows real interest in their symptoms.
Before a patient has even spoken with Dr. Wine, the cofactor assessment has achieved what so many other clinicians never will: It says, “I’m listening. I hear you. I believe you. I want to know more.”
And all that makes Dr. Wine’s job that much easier once the test is complete.
Douge Wine [4] - So you filled out this assessment. It's over 600, over 600 questions. All right. When by asking his questions, were able to get a much more valid description of whether you have Lyme or not. And your Lyme scored came back at 50. So the chance of you still having Lyme is 50 percent. Sounds like you still have it.
Oooh Dr. Doug Wine. Where do I start? Dr. Wine is a charming guy - looks like he could be a middle-aged sailboat model or something. Silvery hair, ruddy cheeks, big sweater.
After presenting me with some very problematic math, Dr. Wine went on to contradict nearly everything I had ever learned about the disease up until this point.
He started with the tests - which, as we’ve discussed, aren’t great for the first few weeks of infection.
Doug Wine [16] - You will have to have it in for a minimum of nine months before you're ever going to test positive.
In case you have any doubts, this is not true.
Doug Wine [20] - 70 percent of all ticks carry the Lyme spirochete.
This too, is incorrect.
Doug Wine - Are you ready for this? And the people that are listening here, though, they're gonna shrug their heads on this one. The tick is like number 7 or 8 down the list of what is actually transmitting disease.
Nope.
Doug Wine - Now the disease. Now we know that is sexually transmitted.
Uh-uh.
Doug Wine - We know that it is transmitted by all bodily fluids.
Auugh!
Doug Wine - You kiss someone, you have sex with someone you're giving it or getting Lyme disease.
Oh my god no!
Doug Wine - Drank out of one bottle and you forgot which one is yours and you pick up the other one and have a drink of beer, and that guy has Lyme. You just acquired Lyme. One drop of saliva will do it.
Oh my god that’s not true.
Doug Wine - We know these things for facts now. So humans are by far the number one carrier of Lyme disease and that's where it gets transmitted the most.
I don’t want to get bogged down countering all of these claims right now - but to be clear, everything you just heard is wrong, and if you want to know why, we’ll post some more detailed explanations on our website.
Before Doctor Wine was challenging the facts on Lyme disease, he was focused on fat. For years, he ran a chiropractor's office on New Hampshire seacoast called the Body Design Center. He had a protocol test there, too, like the one he uses here, as well as lasers. The same oscillating machines and oxygen therapy. But all of it was advertised as a method for weight loss. In an article in 2011, he was quoted as saying that the key to weight loss is in the hormones and that quote, the body doesn’t go into fat-burning mode until night time. He claimed that the average person could expect to lose one to four inches off their waistline per visit to the Body Design Center. As far as I can tell, he's retrofitted the same basic protocol for an infectious disease: Lyme.
Doug Wine [23] - 12 weeks intensive and then the which is twice a week for twelve weeks, you're going to have anywhere from 30 to 40 different supplements. And you've got six months where we have to eliminate all of the hatchlings as they hatch. So the 6 month is easy. So we include all that. Everything is included in it for... six thousand dollars. Right around there
Hatchlings. Hmm.
Each visit includes all of the therapies I've mentioned here, oscillation, brain tap and of course, the lasers. And he puts them on a healthier diet. None of this is covered by insurance, of course, so that six-thousand dollars - you caught that, right? That six thousand dollars is coming out of pocket. And the claim: this bombardment of of therapies will do what antibiotics can’t… permanently cure chronic lyme disease.
If you believe that - you’ve got to wonder… how does it work? How do low-powered lasers, that are approved to treat aches and pains, cure an infectious disease?
Doug Wine [9] - Once you scare these bugs and these spirochetes can go and hide under this biofilm, and this biofilm is as hard as concrete.
They're harder than steel. So that's why, again, the average the antibiotics, the average herbs and plants in the boosting immune system are not strong enough to be able to deteriorate that biofilm.
Dr. Wine’s explanation, for how lasers can treat Lyme disease, rests entirely on something called “biofilm”... and while I’m tempted to skip past this and just tell you that this is utter garbage, I actually think it’s important to break down how he’s mixing fact with fiction, in order to make his protocol sound more scientific than it really is.
Some pathogens can indeed form a protective coating, called a biofilm, under which colonies of bacteria can grow untouched by antibiotics. It’s pretty common in species of bacteria that infect your mouth; dental plaque is basically a biofilm.
They can be tough for liquids and gasses to penetrate - you might say they are as non-stick like teflon...but they are not as strong as steel or concrete. Just ask your dentist.
Now here’s the key part.
One paper has shown that Lyme bacteria can create biofilms - but so far, it’s only been done in lab conditions - they’ve never been seen in a living human or animals with Lyme. And that paper… well, it has been panned by most of the researchers I’ve talked to..
Dr. Wine is placing all his eggs in this basket - saying, with unearned confidence, that biofilms explain persistent symptoms in Post treatment and chronic lyme patients - even though the science is incredibly flimsy.
Anyway - back to Dr. Wine.
Doug Wine - We knew that that was the key. If you can eliminate or deteriorate this biofilm, obviously, then the big bacteria just becomes a normal bacterium and you can easily eliminate them like anything else. We have got different sets of lasers and other different things that we do. And they're set up and I don't want to give light. I told you earlier I wasn't gonna give away my secrets over this interview, but we have figured out how to do that through lasers and a combination of other things. So once the once the the biofilm is deteriorated and I'll add that, we'll hold it.
Taylor - Can I just to understand the basics of how that works as opposed to specify, you know, the specifics in terms of like what the frequency or something like that. But maybe just because I don't understand what the how the laser is breaking down the biofilm or even how you find the biofilms?
Wine - Well, the biofilms are everywhere. And I'll tell you what, you'll have to come back. We're right now doing our internal intellectual property. I mentioned this earlier. But if you come back in probably two or three months from now, I'll give you all the details you want, but I'm not going to give them to an ally I'm on. And unfortunately, I'd love to give you those details because it's going to turn a lot more people on into coming to us. But I can't just yet but come back in a couple of months and I'll give you that information. Fair enough? So I can't tell you... again, can't tell you anymore about how how our lasers work. But let's just go to the end, to the to the point just after that. That let's assume that they do.
Taylor - I guess my only issue is that... so when I think about like... you know... medical treatments... I mean, if you're asking people to come in here and do a treatment, they should be able to know that it's that it's efficacious.
Wine - Yeah. Well, we go by right now. We go by our our testimonials. We've we've treated now over a thousand people. And we take a testimonial from every person that comes in here. That's what we go by right now. Like I said, I can't give you any more proof, although you're you're you're kind of forcing me in and dig digging here, which I don't appreciate. All right. I told you, I can't do it. But I told you. I told you, honestly, I will be able to give you that information if you give me a couple more months and then you can blurb this to the whole entire world. All right? Fair enough?
Taylor Quimby: Fair Enough.
Doug Wine: ok… [fades down]
It’s been over six months since my visit to the Lyme Laser center… and Dr. Wine has never sent any of the information he promised. I’ve emailed and left lots of messages… He only responded once, and told me he was too busy to answer any of my questions even the yes or no ones.
[music]
Carome: Well, you know, in terms of use for what you know, you know, there's no biologically plausible reason why this type of device should affect Lyme disease.
So instead I called Dr. Michael Carome, Director of Public Citizen - a government watchdog group focused on the safety of drugs and medical devices. And I told him what Dr. Wine told me.
TQ: ...And he said that he couldn't tell me any of the details because it was pending intellectual property stuff.
Carome: [laughs] Yeah, there's always the ‘what’s behind Wizard of Oz Curtain?’
Here's how the regulation works. Devices like cold lasers have to be approved based on science for marketing purposes. But not marketing to consumers. Marketing to providers. In other words, a laser company can only sell its lasers for aches and pains, but a doctor can use them to treat whatever they want runny noses, hemorrhoids, you name it.
Carome: As a clinician, you might be able to get away with that.
But there’s a catch. Because manufacturers of medical devices are under stricter rules - they can only advertise their products for treatments cleared by the FDA..
[advertisement clip] The laser has an infinite number of applications.
Some providers have gotten in trouble for trying to sell lasers like Dr. Wine’s. One South Dakota dentist for example, claimed that his cold lasers could cure or treat everything from bronchitis, to incontinence, to cancer.
[advertisement clip] Light is healing. Our sun is like the sun is healing. Energy is healing. The laser is just another way of carrying that light to the body.
So long story short… Dr. Wine might be breaking the law, if he’s making his own lasers… and selling them to other providers. Well guess what?
Taylor Quimby: So. So you actually manufacture them?
Doug Wine - I make all my own stuff. I make all my own lasers myself. I make all my own supplements. I don't trust supplement manufacturers. That's another that's another talk for another day … [fades down]
Ever since the early days, when he was allegedly using lasers to melt fat off of waistlines, Dr. Wine says he has been manufacturing his own equipment.
Doug Wine [14] - So we literally went and bought some tan to tanning beds, took him back, ripped out all the guts out of him and put in our put in all of our lasers. And. And that's how we actually made our first when the first one we made for hair was very interesting, too. We actually took an old hockey helmet and drilled holes in the hockey helmet...
And he’s been selling the lasers too - As of this recording, there are 7 Lyme Laser Centers: One in Maine, one in San Francisco, in Baltimore, in Missouri, two in New Hampshire, and one in Massachusetts.
We heard back from three of these centers, and they confirmed that Dr. Wine sells them a package that includes everything needed to administer his protocol. Not the tanning beds and hockey helmets, just the handheld stuff. They told us, just as he did, that his lasers are proprietary… that he makes them, or has them made to his specifications… and can only be purchased from him. Of course it is possible that Dr. Wine is just buying lasers off the shelf and marking them up, but he is selling them to providers, not for FDA approved treatments related to aches or pains, but specifically, for Lyme disease.
As a medical device manufacturer, Dr. Wine also should have gotten what’s called 510k clearance - A sort of basic step that alerts the FDA to what you’re doing, and lets them know you’re piggybacking on the clearance of similar or identical devices already on the market.
According to searches on the FDA database, he never did.
Carome: 10 - As a manufacturer, you can’t market it for uses that the FDA hasn’t cleared it for… And so if the doctor is indeed doing that, then he appears to not being compliant with federal regulations related to the oversight of medical devices…
Michael Carome told me that, even if Dr. Wine is non-compliant, it’s unlikely that the FDA would step in.
Carome: 16 - If it would be great if some regulatory body would step in and stop that, but there are just thousands of examples of this type of conduct by healthcare professionals across the country...
There are just so many non-compliant devices out there, the FDA is going to prioritize the ones that could actively harm patients. The lasers, as far as we can tell, aren’t dangerous. They just don’t have any studies to back them up when it comes to Lyme Disease.
<<<<<<<< THE END OF THE FIRST HALF>>>>>>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlEwyrRYSss
[Old Timey TV clip] Quackery. The word comes from the old Dutch quack solver, one go quacks like a duck about his salves and remedies. Time is made a few changes, but quackery today is still essentially built on misinformation, distortion, mental suggestion, fadism and half truths. And it is still spread in an atmosphere of ignorance, fear, superstition.
Quackery. Flim-flam. Snake-oil. There’s a long history of people selling bogus medicines and health remedies… but in some cases, there’s a nugget of truth hidden underneath the pile of bull.
Cynthia Graber [2] - My name is Cynthia Graber. I have been a radio reporter, science reporter all over a reporter for a longtime couple of decades.
Cynthia Graber is the co-host of the podcast Gastropod - and some years back she wrote about the origin of the phrase snake-oil salesmen for Scientific American.
It all started in the United States in the mid 19th century - when more than 12,000 chinese laborers were building the Central Pacific Railroad across California and Nevada.
Cynthia Graber [3] - And, you know, that was really hard labor and they probably used snake oil to help them with their aches and pains at the end of the day. And that's because snake oil has long been a remedy in traditional Chinese medicine, particularly for arthritis and joint pain.
The oil, which came from Chinese water snakes, was rubbed on the skin topically. Quackery you say? Well you probably know lots of folks who take another type of oil on a regular basis as a supplement: fish oil. Because fish oil contains...
Cynthia Graber [4] - Omega 3 fatty acids… You can find them in a really high percentage. And fish that live in cold water because they help keep the fat in their body supple in water that's that cold. And it turns out that sea snakes in the China sea have an even higher percentage of omega 3 fatty acids in their fat in their body than salmon do.
Studies have consistently showed that diets high in Omega 3 fatty acids can help reduce heart disease and inflammation… the sort of that causes arthritis and pain the joints. And guess what… Snake oil?
Cynthia Graber [6] - I haven't found a study that tests it on joints to see if it works. So I don't know that it actually relieves pain, but it's certainly a mega 3 fatty acids are known to help combat inflammation. So there's a potential mechanism there like it could be working.
So if there's a little bit of truth here, then where do we get the term “snake-oil salesman?”
Clark Stanley impersonator - Ladies and gentlemen gather around for one of the greatest things you’ve ever seen Clark Stanley’s snake oil liniment… [fades down]
It came from Clark Stanley, a.k.a. the Rattlesnake King. A 19th century entrepreneur with a dubious moral foundation. He claimed to have learned the secrets of snake oil from native Americans.
Erika Janik [4] - It was really popular at the time to say that you got your knowledge from Indians. So he was really working that angle really well.
This is Erika Janik - my executive producer, and what do you know, author of Marketplace of the Marvelous: The Strange Origins of Modern Medicine. She says The Rattlesnake King showed up at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, and turned out quite the performance.
Erika Janik [2] - And he had a big old sack of snakes, and he would slip them open and then dunk them into boiling water. And then the fat inside the snakes would rise to the surface and he would skim that off and sell it as snake oil liniment, which he said was a cure all.
Clark Stanley Impersonator - Neuralgia, sciatica, lame back, lumbago, contracted cords, toothache, sprains, swellings, frost bites, bruises, sore throats, bites of animals insects and reptiles… [fades down]
You name it - Clark Stanley’s snake oil could cure it. . Of course, there’s just one hitch with Clark’s rattlesnake oil...
7 - Rattlesnakes have like a third of the omega 3 fatty acids of the Chinese water snakes.
So at the same time that he’s ramping up the claims - saying his oil is the cure for everything, he’s actually reducing the ingredient that maybe - just maybe - was actually having a positive effect. By the time he was busted by the feds in 1917, he had gone full snake-oil: as in, his snake oil contained absolutely no snake oil at all. Instead, it was likely made of some combination of beef fat, red pepper, and turpentine.
9 - And I mean it to me, it's two things, right? It's medical telephone and it is another example of white people kind of being like, hey, those folks over there, those non-white people, they had a good idea. I'm gonna make money off it and do something. That's actually not what they were doing originally.
The reason I wanted to tell this story, is because, despite the progress we’ve made in these 100 years, there are ways in which the line between healthcare and quackery is still thinner than you might realize: therapies that are poo-pooed, because their benefits are hard to measure, or aren’t well understood and conventional FDA approved drugs that perhaps aren’t as effective as we’d perhaps like to believe.
The temptation is always to say that some therapy or another is either real evidence-based medicine, or pure useless snake oil… but why can’t something be a little bit of both?
Case in point, another unusual and controversial lyme treatment called Full-body hyperthermia.
Hyper meaning elevated, thermia, meaning heator temperature… Heat therapy.
[TV clip] - [fades up] ...located in the Bavarian town Bad Aibling St. George markets itself as a place of last resort for people suffering with Lyme disease. Patients travel from all over the world and paid tens of thousands of dollars to be treated here. Dr. Frederic Daoud says the heat kills the Lyme Bacteria in the body slowly. We go out with a temperature. It takes approximately two hours… [fades down]
Heating up the body can make it inhospitable for pathogens. That’s partially why you get a fever when you get sick. Again, theoretically this isn’t total quackery.
Here in the US, there are clinical trials that combine this kind of high heat with chemotherapy - and there are indications that it can might make cancer treatments more effective.
But it’s no miracle cure - and in the case of high heat hyperthermia, where a patient’s temperature is raised to over 107 degrees, the treatment comes with serious risks.
[TV clip] - [fades up] ...According to the federal government website cancer dot gov, side effects of hyperthermia treatment include blisters, tissue swelling and blood clots. In rare cases can cause cardiovascular disorders.
Again, it’s dangerous. But, what if there is something there worth examining? What if there’s a safer version of this treatment?
Chuck Raison [11] - The wrinkle though is that my new treatments are almost all old treatments… so I sort of specialize I sometimes say in trying to retrofit these things I call ancient practices for the treatment of depression.
This is Charles Raison is professor of psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Medicine and Public Health
12 - Taylor Quimby: for example?
Chuck Raison - For example, whole body hyperthermia is a classic right? You know people have been crawling into sweat lodges and baking themselves in saunas and baths for thousands of years and heat has real biological effects that change people’s emotional/perceptual/cognitive states.
Dr. Raison has been studying the use of full - body hyperthermia - at lower, safer temperatures - in the treatment of major depression. And so far, it looks like he’s really on to something.
For this treatment patients lay on a hospital stretcher, covered with what looks like a rectangular canvas tent.
Chuck Raison - And so that the person's body is completely enclosed in a tent and the head sticks out of one end of the tent. And there are these large infrared lights that shine down from the top of the tent onto the body. And it's in that tent like enclosure that the heat is generated.
After a period of time, the infrared lights turn off, the person’s body is wrapped up to keep the heat in.
TQ - And have you ever tried it? I mean, do you know what he feels like?
Raison - I know. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly what it feels like. By the time it was over I was sweating profusely and I was huffing and puffing, I felt like I had run a marathon, you know, kinda out in the desert heat. I mean it was remarkably hot.
I think what Dr. Raison is trying to say here is: it’s hot.
Raison - So it's hot. Hot.
Taylor Quimby - It’s very hot hot.
Raison - Hot, it’s very hot.
Taylor Quimby - It’s really hot
Raison - It is... hot.
When I first heard about Dr. Wine’s light therapy, I thought “light therapy?” What a crock.
It seems like a simple light couldn’t possibly have an effect on the human body, nevermind an infectious disease. But then I thought more about the subject, and I realized… sunlight can burn your skin, give you vitamin D, warm your body, change your circadian rhythms…
And heat is powerful too. During Dr. Raison’s therapy, heart rate and blood pressure goes up. Stress hormones flush through the body - an immune response is triggered.
The problem isn’t that these therapies are useless, the problem is that the claims ought to match the science…
Chuck Raison [14] - Don’t trust any new treatment that doesn’t have a credible placebo comparator. The power of placebo which is this combination of hope, expectation, trust in the authority figure, the clinician. These are overwhelmingly powerful effects,
Charles Raison has been able to show that full-body hyperthermia can help lessen the symptoms of major depression. But there’s still so much more work to do. Each step of the study process is iterative… intentional... slow. Not to mention placebo controlled. He publishes his results, shows his work, opens it up to criticism.
Chuck Raison - We don’t know how it works, we have this tantalizing finding but that’s… it’s a very preliminary finding and there’s a lot to be done there, also...
Just think about how different this sounds from the first half of the episode.
Doug Wine [with funky echo]: Also, lasers, lasers are by far the most incredible health tool. They've been invented in the last probably forever. I mean, they really are. They can do things, magical things, as long as you have the right dynamics of the lasers. So you've got different, different frequencies. You have different nanometres and different jewels. You have different powers, you have different things for different lasers. If you can figure out the dynamics of the lasers to match what you want them to do they can work miracles… [fades down]
[Music]
Ever since I visited the Lyme Laser centers, I’ve been struggling to answer a question. One that can feel a little icky. Why is it that so many patients swear by treatments with little to no scientific justification?
[Clip from website testimonial] - Hi, I'm Nancy. And I think I probably had line for over 10 years now and decided to come here and glad I did. I'm cured and I feel like a million bucks.
The cynics would likely attribute these testimonials to the placebo effect, and the fact that people don’t like to admit they’ve been scammed. There’s probably some truth to that.
[Clip from website testimonial] - Thanks to Dr. Wine, I realized I was starting to sleep. And for me, sleep was huge. And when you’re not sleeping, I’m learning that you don’t regenerate your tissues in your body and things… and so that was the biggest thing for me, and I started to feel different… [fades down]
Dr. Wine is making misleading, dangerous claims about Lyme disease… His testing protocol is not a responsible diagnostic tool… And there is no proof his lasers will cure bonified lyme disease. But Dr. Wine is providing something that patients want.
[Clip from website testimonial] - So the brain fog is gone. That was one of the first things that started clearing.
Doug Wine: How long did that take?
Patient: A month? [fades down]
Time.
He spends a lot of time with his patients. He asks hundreds of personal questions. He gets them into meditation, and exercise. He tells them to change their diet. Combined with the power of the placebo, these lifestyle changes really are probably helping with symptoms — with depression, anxiety, aches and pains that may very well be related to chronic illness. The lasers are probably the least important part of what he’s doing - just the schtick that helps sell the whole package.
[Clip from website testimonial] - I was feeling better, less aching, less brain fog. I feel 100 percent better right now.
If this is quackery, it’s no surprise that some people prefer it to getting kicked out of an emergency room empty-handed.
So what’s the truth here?
Again, Dr. MIchael Carome of Public Citizen.
Carome - It may appear to be harmless, and there may be a placebo effect which is real. I mean placebo effect is a real thing, but where they can be harmed, as is in their pocketbook, for one. Patients can be charged several hundred, if not several thousand dollars, not covered by health insurance. And again, desperate patients all can suffer financially when when when they’re exploited.
Dr. Wine charges his patients right around six-thousand dollars he says - for treatments that are all available for much, much, cheaper.
Doug Wine - We include all of it. Everything is included in it, for $6,000. Right around there… actually by the time this comes out it might be a little bit more…
Taylor Quimby - And at this point have you gotten insurance companies on board?
Doug Wine - No insurance companies are never going to pay… I mean I have to… we are a Lyme protocol office. There is no code. Insurance companies made it very clear that they don’t want to be… they don’t have anything to do with this Lyme disease… it’s an epidemic right now, it’s worse and worse… it’s being transmitted as we speak right now. Very highly transmittable, and there’s going to be more and more… they’re not going to pick the tab up for this. So again, more the reason that we try to keep it as reasonable… [fades down]
In my opinion, there are four questions you should ask about treatments and therapies.
If patients want to do a little laser therapy, that’s there call. But remember, you can buy a laser off Amazon for a couple hundred bucks. And guess what - the therapy that Charles Raison is working on? You can simulate that too, for the price of a YMCA membership. It’s called a sauna.
[CREDITS]
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